Episode Description

In this episode Thanasis and Dimitri talk about how to validate and expose your startup.

Episode Notes

Transcript

Thanasis [00.00.06]: Are you an entrepreneur, a designer, a developer, never before has it been easier to get your new venture off the ground. Whether you’re just getting started or have already begun your journey, you’ve come to the right place. In each episode we will dive into a new challenge breaking it down into simple, digestible items. I’m Thanasis…

Dimitri [00.00.25]: …And I’m Dimitri.

Thanasis [00.00.26]: And you’re listening to Listen-Ship-Repeat, this is episode No.4 “Validating and exposing your startup.”

(Music)

Thanasis [00.00.38]: So, what’s up Dimitri?

Dimitri [00.00.40]: Hey, episode number 4! Everything is great! What have you been up to?

Thanasis [00.00.47]: We rolled out some new features on Netscan, my startup, some features that our customers were really asking for. So, now we provide them with some custom domain names automatically and they can update them. Everything is going good so far, the features rolled out smoothly.

Dimitri [00.01.18]: So you took your customers feedback and baked that feedback into your product. Awesome!

Thanasis [00.01.24]: Yeah, we still have a long way to go though.

Dimitri [00.01.29]: Nothing spectacular on my front. You know that one of my goals last year was to blog a bit more and I still try to keep up with releasing one post a month, so been working on that.

Thanasis [00.01.50]: How long does it take you to write a post?

Dimitri [00.01.52]: I have to research it a bit, because I try to write more comprehensive and in depth pieces, like 10 pages or something. On Medium I would say ten to fifteen minutes reading time. So, what I do is, I do my research, gather some links, write some first drafts. I work with a designer, who is really good with his drawing skills and usually does the graphs for me. It takes a while, especially the kind of stuff that I want to do. Otherwise, if it’s a simple thing that fixes a bug and I can take a good benefit from it, I take one of these out in a few minutes.

Thanasis [00.02.45]: So, it’s a project as I understand.

Dimitri [00.02.48]: That’s how I try to look at it and what I would like to do is apart from telling a story through it and I would like each post to have it’s own chatroom. Not quite there yet, but I will keep you posted. Apart from that, just the development work, we are trying to transition from scrum to more like a KanBan sort of thing, but I will definitely let you know next time how that went. That’s still on the way. So that’s pretty much it.

Thanasis [00.03.25]: Yeah, we made some interesting changes in our workflow as well, I want to see it for a few weeks after I share any experiences about that.

Dimitri [00.03.40]: Yeah, I would love to hear it.

Thanasis [00.03.42]: Yeah, let’s see how it rolls.

Dimitri [00.03.44]: So, today we are talking about what you’ve mentioned in the title. Everything begins with an idea and I would like to address something that I’ve been running into a lot and that’s people not sharing their ideas enough like it’s the biggest one billion dollar secret in the world. I just want to share a couple thoughts on that. If you are worried about your idea getting stolen, it’s probably not going to happen. If you think about it, if you share your idea with someone and they will drop their entire life right there on the spot and get out there and pursue it, do you really think that’s going to happen Thanasi? Cause I don’t think so.

Thanasis [00.04.42]: No, I believe ideas are worth nothing.

Dimitri [00.04.46]: So, even if they did that, let’s say, what’s your idea? Is it an elevated pitch? Can you describe it in thirty seconds or less? At the end of the day, it’s execution because every idea could be executed in infinite ways, literally. So there’s no guarantee that what you share out there, somebody would take that vision and translate it into a product. So, it’s a component, it’s a great starting point, but it’s all about execution. You know, I used to do it a lot and I still do it to some extent, stuff that pops up in my head I write it down in this google document that I have. I write down stuff all the time and I share them a lot, because I’m not going to follow through with the very large majority of these things, probably I won’t follow up with any of them. So if you are worried you can look into, depending on your local laws and jurisdictions, you can look into trademarks and patents which cost money but you can purchase some sort of protection. However, my advise would be to share your idea as much as you can and we will probably be talking about why that helps.

Thanasis [00.06.30]: Right, so sharing your idea is part of the validation process. Without sharing your idea there’s no way of validating your idea. As hard and deep we study into the startup entrepreneurship literature, there’s not a single article that will advise you to go stealth. On the contrary, everybody is yelling at you saying “Go out with your idea”, “Test it with your customers, your consumers” and through the discussions that are going to happen, your idea will get refined, so that’s the best practice out there at the moment. Now, I’m mostly coming with mostly a B2B perspective into this discussion, meaning services and products that are sold to businesses, so starting from anything like info products or affiliation programs upwards to SaaS businesses, so towards that end it shouldn’t be ideas that we’re talking about, it should be problems people have that we are trying to solve. Moreover, in that case a problem is that you need to communicate more as you need to understand a problem and here’s a tip that I have figured out as to how you can come out with problems. Problems come out of your personal paying, out of your occupation from your profession or maybe from your hobby, anything that you have worked on for many hours, like a hundred hours plus, so as you do that you figure out that there’s a certain paying point performing that whatever it is. So, it is out of those occupancies that you discover paying points and out of those come the problems we are talking about and out of those come the solutions in the form of a product. Now, if I had to tell where you should go stealth that would be reserved for serial entrepreneurs and founders that know exactly what they’re doing, that they have one at least exit and the market that they want to tackle and because of their fame and their special and proven insights into the market they want to hold their cards closed until they’re ready. That’s because if me as Thanasis would go to somebody and say “hey I found a product that might work” nobody would pay attention, but if Patrick Mckenzie or any other major player would do that, there’s a way bigger audience listening so they have to be more cautious. That’s the only use case that I can think of that going stealth makes sense.

Dimitri [00.10.15]: Even for stealth though, stealth means that they haven’t mentioned it on the internet or publicly, but even for stealth companies that I’m aware of a lot of people have exposed just the behind the scenes, but their ideas are still vetted by a lot of people, they just haven’t written a blog about it or tweeted about it. So, in essence stealth is just for people with big audiences.

Thanasis [00.10.52]: Exactly, people with a megaphone so they don’t need to shout it out loud in the public, they just share it and throwback ideas within their inner circle, that’s how it works. Now, there’s also a misconception that if I have a great idea I’m going to get funded. That used to happen back in the “dotcom” era, the 90’s, but today things are very different. What primarily investors look at is the team, so what you have done, what you have established, what are your achievements as a team, how well are you bonded together and for how long have you had a relationship and that’s in contrary with someone who is looking for a co-founder just to go and raise money, which will be visible from the investor’s perspective and doesn’t stand a chance. So ideas alone are worth nothing, it’s the team, the execution, it’s your prototype or any type of proof that you can bring to the table in terms of investing.

Dimitri [00.12.12]: Just something worth mentioning about ideas that solve specific problems. We live in a high tech age, there’s also a different point of view that I’d like to share and it’s that maybe it doesn’t solve a problem yet, but maybe it creates a non existent need that is born from your idea. It’s not strictly about solving particular problems. It’s also the way you solve a problem, because even though I don’t have any data to back up the claim I’m about make, but you speak to people a lot, you think about ideas and then you might go and google that and probably most of the times you will discover that somebody is already kind of working on that, but it’s just the idea. The execution might be different, they probably don’t have the same product in mind or maybe you have some ideas on how to fill in the gaps, to create something and throw it out there. So, please don’t be discouraged at all if that’s the case and keep in mind that there’s a high failure rate in startups and that shouldn’t discourage you as you might fall of the horse in whatever you do, just stand up clean off the dust from your clothes and get on there again.

Thanasis [00.13.58]: Right, there’s a reason why they’re called serial entrepreneurs. In my mind there is no one time entrepreneur. An entrepreneur is by definition the kind of person that no matter how many times they are going to fall down they are going to stand up and keep walking, even if that means problems in one venture or dropping a venture to move into another one.

Dimitri [00.14.32]: That’s true! And if you think about it that makes more sense anyway, like what are you going to do? Create a startup that is going to last for forty years, for your entire career? No, you’ll probably do that many times. Best of luck and congrats if you do that, that would be awesome, but you will probably have to do that many times. So, at the end of the day share your information with as many people as you can and get your feedback and validate and vet the feasibility of what you’re trying to do.

Thanasis [00.15.10]: Right, so that’s a very good pass to get into validation. So, we overviewed the idea stage the idea part, some things that needed to be mentioned and of course many of those things are going to sound trivial to some people but we are taking it slow, we are doing the 101s first and down the road we will move to more complex issues and more detailed aspects of more of these things. In terms of validation, again the bibliography here is immense, we will just skim through the subject and again I’m approaching this from a B2B standpoint, so to that extent we need to have validation as soon as possible before we commit and invest any development time, which is very costly. There are many things that we can do towards that end, again sharing our ideas and our plans with our potential customers now, since we are a B2B we have customers not consumers and our customers will pay us money for the service that we are going to provide them and our service has to help them earn more money or save them time. If that proposition is strong enough you might get some money upfront, so something like: -“Hey I’m going to do X,Y and Z, would that interest you?” -” Yes, it would, it sounds very interesting” -”Great so are you willing to buy upfront, a deposit, retainer in order to see that happen and in exchange you will get a lifetime 50% discount. Also the deposit is 100% refundable, so at any point you can ask it back, so no risk there for you.” Now, that right there, if you manage to get money upfront is a validation for you. I have actually done it for my SaaS business, Netscan. I had 5 customers prepay me even before the service was actually ready and that gave me the confidence to move forward, invest more in the business and be able to have customers before I even start. Now, here’s another thing that I’ve realised as I’ve been working for Netscan. Netscan originally was created as a part of a hackathon contest in November 2014, the whole service was built within a weekend and then it took another three years to become a product as a part time work, so the thing that I wanted to say here is that we rolled out automatic billing, allowing any customer sign up on our service, put down their credit cards and get their subscription going without any interaction. So, we provision this year 2016, it actually started operating normally in August and considering that Netscan has three years of history, in my mind right now the moment that I have entered the market and the moment that the business now is working is August 2016. So, the message that I wanna convey here is that you need to build your billing system as soon as possible, you need to be able to charge your customers on a monthly basis as soon as possible, otherwise you are in great danger of losing your focus and losing your destination of where you want to go. Now, I’m going to close here with a quote from Steli Efti, “If you have a startup without any customer that’s not really a business, it’s a hobby”

Dimitri [00.19.52]: Speaking of hobbies, maybe it isn’t a B2B focus, maybe what you’re making is more consumer focused, like a website that require a large amount of users to come in and it’s advertising supported, maybe you want to build the next microtransaction based free to play free to start app or a gaming app or one of the mobile app platforms that are in PC and in my experience when I used to have a bootstrapped startup called “Sprimp”, you can visit the domain although these days it redirects to the youtube channel, I will put the info in the show notes to check out what we did there. I am going to use gaming as a particular example as gaming is really brutal and the worst thing you can possibly do, which you won’t, but in case you would, let’s say you through a game out there into the world you will have to show it to as many people as you can in order to get the player feedback because your game will probably not be the best game in the world to begin with you will always have to polish and change constantly. So, usually what I would do is begin a project and just adjust the zoom of the lens as I move out from a very close circle of people and opening it up. I would begin with my friends, then I would move onto my colleagues and then to the community. Especially for the gaming example, I’ll set up a landing page, maybe I’ll start some sort of A private beta, there are ways you can do that via Steam these days, they can accept your project and have a pre released version to distribute it out there. I’ll show it to like minded people that I’m working around, maybe if I’m in a coworking space and that’s the only way to value if what I’m doing is good and if it will have some sort of perceived success down the line. Most importantly, when I’m talking about this kind of stuff and this is deeply personal for me, is to be able to get positive feedback from the close circle people, this energises me and gives me motivation to always improve in what I’m doing. So, it would be really important if what you’re making is some sort of consumer product that would only be successful or would work if it has the largest outreach possible or the good word of mouth from the good experience in its use.

Thanasis [00.23.09]: Right! Of course games are a special category, a division on their own, if we’re talking about web based applications consumer facing I’ve found that things have to be handled a little bit different in terms of conducting a friends and family test about that. So, through the course of running consumer based startups, web based startups, I’ve found that friends and family always want to make you happy and give you their best opinion of you and they will try not to hurt your feelings, so it’s expected that their feedback is going to be subjective and that’s not really what you need, that would be closing your eyes towards the reality so you need to expose yourself.

Dimitri [00.24.11]: You can tell though! If somebody doesn’t like it you can tell, at least if you pay close attention.

Thanasis [00.24.16]: It depends, if you sit on top of them yes you can, but if that happens through a facebook message, it’s not likely that you’ll be able to tell.

Dimitri [00.24.26]: Well, yeah they’re not going to put the poop emoji basically.

Thanasis [00.24.30]: Exactly! You mentioned before signup pages that accept emails, of course that’s a standard practice, I didn’t even go there as I think this as common sense to jump right into the thing that matters, which is convincing customers to pay you for a service that you haven’t yet implemented and that’s I believe as the best way to go today. Now, once you have your validation, your next step is going to be exposure and marketing. Again there are a thousand ways. There is this famous book called “Traction” by Gabriel Weinberg who is “DuckDuckGo” CEO, who has done significant work on that subject, he has sat down and put out the 19 possible channels of distribution, which are all the possible ways that you can expose or market your business and we are going to go through some of them. But the basic idea here is to go public as soon as possible, make your presence stand out, be as loud as possible depending on your specific market or industry you’ll be operating in.

Dimitri [00.26.04]: It’s nice if you would also be able to, you know you’ve done your research at home you’ve identified competitors out there, so don’t hesitate at all to contact them. They will respond, at least some of them. I’ve been contacted and I found that to be very productive, both sides can benefit. If you are just starting out, maybe you’ll be contacting somebody that’s already established it might be a little bit difficult, but in that corner of the universe that we’re working in, people always want to learn and never underestimate anybody because you’ll benefit 100% of the time. So, if somebody wants to have a skype call with you, a public Twitter chat with you, a Slack chat with you if you are in those big Slack communities, it’s really the best thing you can do spending time with your competitors.

Thanasis [00.27.17]: Definitely, only good things can come out of that. I mean, we all know that in our first stands as first time entrepreneurs is to be worried and scared of competition but the reality is the opposite of that. Competition is really the co-workers in the same market.

Dimitri [00.27.45]: You won’t be discussing trade secrets, you’re going to be discussing you market conditions in your space for example.

Thanasis [00.27.52]: You know, when you’re starting out and you’re in your sixth month or your first year, you really don’t have the experience to have any secrets anyway. You are still trying to understand the market. Of course, down the road you are going to understand what works best for you and it’s going to be your secret recipe, you don’t need to share that, but in specific case it might be obvious. However, when you’re starting out and you are entering the market, probably you are going to have multiple competitors entering as well, some will be ahead of you and some behind you, but that doesn’t really matter. The conversation needs to happen and channels need to stay open and only good things can come out of that, because everybody cares for everybody to win, in this industry that we’re working on we have this type of positive attitude. But even if that’s not really the case in your particular example, you can only benefit from talking to your competition, I totally agree with that and it’s something that every entrepreneur should practice. Now, moving on to more specifics as to how you can actually expose your startup, the number one thing that comes in my mind, which fits most of the cases - as we said there are nineteen channels and not all of them fit for your particular case - however a really common denominator is content marketing. Content marketing is helping you in so many ways, it is fuel for your SEO (Search Engine Optimisation) as the more content you throw out there the better Google can index you, rank you, you get link backs and your cloud with Google grows. So, it’s a win win situation there for sure. Content marketing is a lot of things, it’s blogging, podcasting, creating info products, you know a lot of things that can fit into that particular group of actions.

Dimitri [00.30.26]: You can write you own articles in your field or other fields, which will be linking back to your own operation. You can give behind the scenes looks about what you’re doing, you can write technical focus blogs that might get some interest from developers, that’s not really customer focus, but you never know who will take a look at your content as you might want to hire down the road. You can also guest blog, they used to call it guest blog, I’m not sure how they call it now, it’s when you write a blog post for another site, either one of the big ones where you’ll have to come in contact with one of the editors perhaps and if they’re kind enough they will allows you a spot on their site. Another thing that happened to me was when I wrote something on Medium, one of the publications approached me and asked “Do you want to be featured on our publication?” and they have their own followers and following. So, I had this particular one who asked for that and the article changed to match their theme and in that way you have hundreds of people coming in and you get recommendations you are able to engage in the comments below.

Thanasis [00.32.05]: Yeah, guest blogging is one of the most effective ways to get attention.

Dimitri [00.32.06]: It’s also fun too if you enjoy doing it.

Thanasis [00.32.13]: This is where I am going to focus during the next months on Netscan’s marketing, just blogging. Now, as we know 80% percent of content marketing is blogging, putting articles out there. As a startup founder you also have to option of hiring a ghostwriter, those are copywriters that can create blog posts for you and you can find those in the usual places, like Upwork. There you can find copywriters that can do 20 or 30 dollars for a blogpost, but those blog posts aren’t really human quality, meaning that they are not going to be enjoyable to read by a human and especially an informed human, so the primary purpose of creating those is just to create content and have Google index as many keywords for you as possible. Today, that’s kind of black hat tactic for Google, that’s how it’s considered today, so I wouldn’t really advise it. The really good quality blog posts come at a very high price, like developers, because the person writing it won’t get started with the editor right away, like you said before they are going to research the topic, generate references and url links in order to be able to back what they’re writing about. This type of service is costly, around 100 to 150 US Dollars per article, so I’m not sure if that’s a viable solution for you at the early stages. It’s definitely a struggle and it’s one of the struggles that you are going to take as you are starting out.

Dimitri [00.34.35]: Right. Well, one of the things that cost nothing at all are social media, so let’s mention Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, there are dozens of others and you can set up some profiles there, just make sure you update it regularly with content. However, “regularly” is up to you, a professional internet journalist would tweet a minimum ten times per day about the stuff they’re working on, but in your case probably something at least once a day or every couple of days would be great. Conversations will happen, guaranteed, maybe you will have to pursue conversations and you will always have to get back to them, a hundred percent of the time. SO, engage and participate in social media, go to those market place and get yourself a nice cover for your social profiles, make it look nice, have links to everything where people can find you and always engage, preferably on the spot, but at least get back until a reasonable amount of time and get the conversation going about what you’re building.

Thanasis [00.35.54]: Right, of course again coming from that B2B perspective there, I’d say caution on the social media. Unless the specific business that you are working on demands social media engagement, it doesn’t really add much to your bottom line. So, if you are going to do Twitter, you just have to have a presence there in terms of a couple of tweets per week, in case somebody checks this out would not believe that your venture is abandoned. Of course we are talking about the early stages and not about an established business where they are already three or four years down the road and they have a dedicated marketing team, that’s a different situation. So, on B2B social media would make sense if you want to define very specific and well defined communities and you use social media as channel to reach out to them.

Dimitri [00.36.55]: So we mentioned the landing page a bit earlier, and maybe you want to gather people’s emails in there who have interest in your venture. Use these emails responsibly, don’t spam people and initially those emails you’ve collected you can discreetly ask them to follow you on social media.

Thanasis [00.37.18]: Definitely! Email marketing is a whole domain of marketing.

Dimitri [00.37.18]: So if you do all these staff online, hopefully you’ll be able to create a word of mouth, a network effect, if you are as you mentioned at least engaged in a certain amount of time which doesn’t give the impression that you activities are abandoned. You have to give the impression that is alive and people are actively working on this and get yourself known. So that’s something that you can do to get your word of mouth and get other people help you perhaps getting some publicity or some media exposure. I have “Feedly” as my main article consumption service, I have it on my laptop, I have their apps, I have subscribed to hundreds of blogs in any category imaginable, one of my favorite ones though is technology which deals with topics from startups to automotive technology. You read all these and hopefully one day you might want to get featured in that and people will be able to find out about you. When I was making my games, even before that were I was working for another startup, we would send out press releases. You can get other people to do this for you, but that costs money or you can do them yourself. There are a lot of established formats on what a press release is, I will find something good enough and I will post it on the show notes, but what we’re talking about is an official statement with bold letters issued by you or your organisation giving information on a particular matter. I mentioned Feedly before, that’s how you’ll be able to curate your own list and find the outlets that you think will serve you better, will make your product better well known and potentially create a customer base. There are a lot of stuff on how to write a press release, I will quickly go through them. So, it starts with something attention grabbing, maybe a bold font.

Thanasis [00.40.06]: Clickbait!

Dimitri [00.40.07]: Yeah, you know try to be sensational because you don’t want that to be backfired, you don’t want those “Hey, Guess what happened when they did this..” in your title.

Thanasis [00.40.26]: Not something like, “We cured cancer”

Dimitri [00.40.27]: Yeah, said the guy that who didn’t…

Dimitri [00.40.30]: So, begin the body with a date in the city, summarise what you’re doing in the lead sentence and then describe the important part of your story, the whos the whats, the whens, the wheres and the hows for the rest of the body and include your contact information. So, that’s pretty much it, make it nice, make it something that you can scan within a few seconds. I get a dozens of these every day. Just make sure you curate a list across the spectrum of publications and blogs from the top tier ones to, maybe, the enthusiasts that on their spare time like to blog about stuff they discover. That’s how you’re going to be featured in the beginning, but you’d be surprised that sometimes out of nowhere big sites might feature you. That might happen in a variety of ways, like copying your press release as some of them a policy to do that, which is fair enough or they might even editorialize a bit on what you’ve sent. So if you want to attract the top of the tier people, it will happen if your list is long enough, so try to make a large list, ten, twenty, fifty or hundred. There are literally thousands of technology focused articles and you actually want to cut above the noise, because there’s a lot of noise out there, so that’s something that comes only with time, it takes a lot of practice to be able to right a lot of stuff. However, you can get somebody else to do it for you but that costs money, but honestly just give it a try and go for it. You know your product, you know what you’re building so you’ll be able to convey that enthusiasm out there.

Thanasis [00.42.32]: Definitely, and like with everything you do you need to be aware and measure the results, the outcome of each action that you do. Now, to touch on some other significant channels really fast, one of them is display ads and advertising your service online, for which you can use major services like Google, Facebook, Twitter, Youtube and depending on your particular industry there are things that might work and things that might not work. I’ve come to find that remarketing works really well for B2B, that is when a visitor steps into your site and the moment they leave your site and move into any other website they will start seeing advertisements of your service, so it’s kind of like, wherever they go they get followed by that and that can be really effective, so you should really try that if you are on the B2B industry. If you are on the consumer side, running ads is simply not sustainable, it simply doesn’t make sense to run specific advertisements for a short period of time in order to measure how your engine behaves, how your user behaves, so pay out some usability reporting for your service. The other channel of distribution of course is SEO, Search Engine Optimisation, which is the primary channel Netscan uses and what can we say more onto that subject, everything has been said. Make sure that you’ve got a pretty clean copy on your website, a targeted copy with keywords that target what you want to target and you have to be very specific on that, you have to understand which keywords you are targeting and what is their popularity. Have some html elements, you web page needs to be comprised with the instruction of the browser and the search engine about what your website is displaying. If you have a header tag you need to use the header tag, so we have header 1,2,3 and you need to be careful and cautious about all of that. Another important channel of distribution, again that is basically for B2B businesses as they can make more use of that, is to use the engineering as marketing, so a craft a tool that is usable to a large group of population and put it out there, for instance I’ve seen many of those and personally I’m using an application called “evrytimezone.com”, which helps me book appointments with people in different timezones. So, that is engineering as marketing in essence and through that you can get some possible leads. Of course then there are the offline events.

Dimitri [00.46.16]: Yes, offline events and how we could differentiate those, so one of my favourites is meetups in your local areas, which are a great opportunity to talk about what you’re doing. I’m running a particular meetup and I have set up a few in my lifetime and I can assure you that nothing would make me happier if someone would come and say that he would want to give a product demo, so really don’t hesitate to do that at all. This would help me as an organiser get some curious people around that would want to hear about it and for you to give your product demo would be a great opportunity to let the world know. The scale obviously is much smaller, but this swings back to being energized and having people around looking at their own reactions, but their eyes might light up and you will be able to see that immediately, so that’s definitely worth it and that will help you build your community and should you decide to do that at some point.

Thanasis [00.47.41]: Definitely! Community building for very specific types of businesses, for instance I’ve seen it in the gaming hosting world makes really sense, but in other cases it doesn’t that much, so as we said based on your specific cases some of the channels will work and others won’t. Again the whole idea here is that you need to measure the outcome and the results and you really need to do that a billion times, you need to do that forever.

Dimitri [00.48.25]: We’ve made a podcast about that.

Thanasis [00.48.26]: Exactly, Listen Ship Repeat, so eat a rate eat a rate eat a rate right?

Dimitri [00.48.34]: The benefits of exposing your idea, your startup, to get validation is absolutely gold and you can’t pay money for this. You’ll get feedback from real people, potential users and on the other side it can expose some cracks in you model or product so maybe that’s a time to pivot and we can talk forever about this Thanasi, we can put that on the list of the future stuff to talk about, because we’ve witnessed something like that and it could be fun too.

Thanasis [00.49.32]: Yeah, what I was trying to say here is that we are constantly trying to get product market feed and that is the single most important thing that you need to do for your business, because nothing else matters if they don’t add to the bottom line and finding the product market feed, finding that exact combination that unlocks that market that you want to approach is the only thing that matters.

Dimitri [00.49.58]: Awesome, so make sure that you share your ideas, always be mindful, it’s the smallest percentage that the idea matters, it’s the execution that matters the most and has to do with your experience and I wish you to do that multiple times. After that you’ll be able to vet your idea, validate it, it’s feasibility and once you start making stuff, your energy moves onto the ongoing development process of your idea as well as to exposing and marketing of your idea. If all goes well, that’s great, repeat the process over and over again and best of luck.

Thanasis [00.50.40]: Awesome! That was all for today! I think we’ve exceeded our time so please send us your questions by calling us on 8663705050 from anywhere or you can email us hello@listenshiprepeat.com, subscribe on iTunes by searching for our podcast, feel free to go in there and drop us some stars or a review if you want. Our website www.listenshiprepeat.com. So until next time, thank you for listening tonight and from both of us, Goodbye!

Dimitri [00.51.13]: Thank you, Goodbye!